#26 Dan Severn: UFC Hall of Fame, Hair Dye, Hustle & the Mindset of a Champion

My coach probably should have never allowed the match because it would look like David versus Goliath. Heavyweight matches is kind of like, you know, the dance of the teddy bears. And for whatever reason, I'm just bouncing up and down like a little uh Mexican jumping bean. Not knowing why I'm doing it, but I saw all the all these other wrestlers are doing this. I go, "Well, if they're doing it, maybe I should be doing it, too." My opponent is out on the mat, and the referee looks right at my coach. He goes, "Coach, where's your heavyweight?" My coach has got a clipboard on his chest just like this. He's got his arms crossed. He doesn't even look at me. He just points over at me. Referee looks over at me, looks back at my coach, goes, "Are you sure, coach?" The match lasted about 20 seconds for sure. Cuz soon as referee blew the whistle, is like he came across, crushed me. Actually had to stop, turn back around just to drop down to his knees to sink a half to get the pin. Dan Severn is a UFC legend. He's in the UFC Hall of Fame and I distinctly remember seeing him when I was 10 years old win UFC 5 back in 1994. Now, this was back before they had weight classes and they were still trying to determine what's the best fighting style. And so, the guys would come out and it would be wrestling versus boxing or sumo versus capoera. And it was really a spectacle and and the rules were way different back then. The only rules in the entire thing was no biting, no eye gouging, and no fish hooks. So, you could hit in the groin, you could knee when they were down. You could I mean, you could do anything. It's savage if you go back and look at some of his old fights. But, I remember cheering him on because we knew wrestling was the best fighting style. And so, he was our guy. Um, so when we got a chance to go see him in Cold Water, Michigan at his house slashtraining facility, we jumped at the opportunity. and we did the interview and you're going to see inside the ring and this gym, this facility, they don't make them like this anymore and they don't make guys like Dan anymore. If you've ever seen any of the old Rocky movies where the the gyms are completely analog and there's heavy bags everywhere and there's boxing gyms and speed bags and just mats all over the place, there's a specific smell to it that honestly I hadn't smelled in about 20 years, but all came back to me as soon as I walked in. In fact, we walked right in. I smelled the smell and I instantly realized my shoes were on because you're not allowed to wear shoes on the mat. And I look over and sure enough, there's a sign that says, "Take your shoes off before you come on the mat." So, we got to talk to Dan and we got to know him a little bit. And let me tell you, they really don't make him like this anymore. He's still wrestling. In fact, after we did the interview on Thursday, he was leaving on Friday to drive to Missouri to host a professional wrestling training camp. He's like 67 years old and he still wrestles. And he he did a headstand. He taught Austin how to do a headstand while we were there. And so he's one of the most singleminded people that's focused on being great at one thing that I've ever met. And so we got to learn a little bit about his life, his whole career. And if you're a big fan of the old UFC, as I am, I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation. Welcome to the Austin and Matt podcast. What's the hardest configuration you've ever fought in? Like what's the hardest ring or Oh, I mean it would be small things. I mean, there was I try to think the one uh it it was a dog kennel type of a I mean, that's how small the the cage was. And and it I think it was built out of dog kennel type of material. And all I know is that we we just basically tore the whole walls down. The more I you know, I I got you know I at that time I'm probably 250 260 who knows maybe up to 270. And uh you know he he's probably pushing anywhere from say 270 to 300 lb. We hit that and we we crush it. What are you at right now? Oh, weight wise I'll probably be right around 230. 230? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's great. No, I' I've laid out I I but deliberately I'm actually Well, who last longer? Do the big barontauruses last or is it those little small animals? The smaller animals. Yeah. So, again, I'm Yeah. I'm I'm trying to eat and train for longevity. Even through the course of the my day, I'll do one or two googles of again what types of vitamins should I be taking for longevity. What kind of uh sleep habits? I mean, I I violate sleep all the time because I think before you guys came, I think I was up till almost 4:00 this morning. Really, I just couldn't shut down. I was actually in my office till probably two and then when I finally made it the the lay in bed I was like I'm like like I could I could not shut down my mind. Has that been typical for you historically to not get a lot of great sleep? Sleep deprivation. Yes. has has been historic historically in in my was at one point in time when I had a home in Aaso, Michigan. Uh my wife and I was running a catering business at the time and this so that would be on the weekends and so my last night uh sleep would be on a Thursday night and then I would go through Friday night when I Friday when I get off work because I was working at at Michigan State at the time. So when I thought we get back to my place, I'm converting out the a van. So I taking all the sheets, stuff like that out, put in the shelving component units that I I made customized for it. Fill it all on up because by 5:00 a.m. that morning, I got to be at the local butcher shop picking up meat, produce, and other things with aids. And then we're going to be out on location by 8 or 9 that morning. And now you're cooking for three or 400 pe three to four people. My wife and I could take could take care of a party of up to 400 people by ourselves, the two of us. Now, I always tell people I've never been in military, but I know a KP duty is all about. I have peeled thousands and thousands of pounds of potatoes. Oh, and I'm the guy that's usually over the burner cooking the meat. And people don't realize how much heat get off right there. So when I have one of the customers start to oh well I think we're you know to start to you know hit me with with some type of a comment I don't want to hear. It's kind of going you you know what I could possibly do to you right now. You don't know how my day has been. And in fact that my I won't go to sleep until early Sunday morning because by the time we drive back for the party I have to unload recon convert back in my my vehicle cuz what of my dober job but what I'm doing Monday through so crash out. How do you retain so much energy? What does your workout look like right now? How do you stay in shape right now? Well when I again I had to say when I'm here because I live a dual lifestyle. I'm here mid Michigan for spring, summer, fall and and a lot of that has only come about because of the co keep caper does people remember co the c word co but like you know Americans don't because I mean again most Americans are stupid or they're very or they're very forgetful they get it's not I'm not from another country I'm not from another country I'm from America but people are so quick to forget Because it's like the cell phone. It's like also it's like dingh whatever they think. Ding. Oh, the almighty is calling me. Ding ding ding. Yeah. You've trained so many athletes. Have you noticed that there's been a difference since the smartphone has been invented in the athletes that walk into the gym? Of course. How's it changed? What? Well, again, as they come in, they all have cell phones. Yeah. And and again, as if they if they ring during class Oh. It breaks a great deal. attention that you don't want from me. I go, "What's your what's what's coach S's ruling here?" You mute your cell phone. I go, "And your cell phone shouldn't even be in the first place unless you have a pregnant wife or a pregnant significant other and you're expecting a otherwise for the hour and a half or two hours that you're here. Leave that thing out in your car." I go, I don't even bring my own cell phone in here. I leave it up in my office. I go and if I can do that, oh I I got way more going on than what you got going on. But I even it's like for the hour hour and a half that you guys are here typically professional guys about an hour and a half. Do you think athletes are getting less mentally tough over the years or do you think that it's pretty much consistent? You know, I I'd say as a general whole, a lot less attention spans. Very very difficult to get attentious bands. Um, they don't know how to do it. I again I you may not know this, but I actually have a teaching degree from Arizona State. So, even but but I was already teaching and or coaching a sport of wrestling as of ninth grade. I'm a freshman in high school, but I already had been wrestling in seventh and eighth grade and and uh you know by my ninth grade year now I'm going to these summer camps. Yeah. Well, my my high school wrestling coach, he's he's long gone, but uh he stood about Tom Castile was his name and he stood about 556 and weighed about 325 to 350 pounds. So again, I he was built like a buttermilk. I'm not saying it to be mean, but I I want to paint the picture that physically he could not come out on the mat to show you how to do a switch, how to do a stand up, how to do a grabby roll, he could not show that to you, but he recognized tail inside the room. So if this guy over here had the best double leg, he taught the double leg. If this guy over here had the best high crotch fighters carry, he taught that. Sever you went to camp this past summer. What'd you learn, coach? I learned the same thing called cradles. Well, come out here and show us cradles. And it that's what helped really reinforce my technique and stuff like that by going out on the mat and actually teaching well your hand goes here the other hand goes you kind of push with your head like this but the more that you start talking about it you start to really think about what are the physical mechanics to where you know I'm I'm all about the physical mechanics now how to impose the most pressure slash pain legal pain upon my opponents so that I can break them. How did you get into wrestling? Why was that the one you picked? I sucked at basketball. You suck that. Well, again, I thought I was going to be a basketball star. Yeah. You know, so I first started playing out basketball, but I thought I was so bad that the coach, the basketball coach put me on the bench. So, there's me and the fat kid on the bench. And I kept thinking, man, this sucks. Yeah. So I was like, but then there was a flu epidemic. Again, this all happens in in seventh grade. There's this big flu epidemic that hits that lots of kids are out sick. Well, there was supposed to be a dual meet that night. And I had a couple of my friends are like going, "Hey, Dad, can you come out and fill in a weight class for us?" And you've never wrestled? Oh, I never wrestled before. Just come on out, get on the mat. But but but again, different times. Yeah, totally. So it's like I think big strong farm kids like going, "Oh, I've got no problem doing this kind of stuff. I will get out there and do this." Well, I I wrestled twice and I got beat twice. So, I mean, I I I felt bad because I I let my my friends out and stuff like that. I'm thinking, "Oh, wow. This is horrible." But I went I went back and finished up my illustrious uh basketball career, but then the the next year went out for wrestling and then been wrestling ever since. Did you take to it? Did you love it? How long did you and how long until you knew that you loved it? No, I I still sucked. Okay. Yeah. No, again the cool part was when I finally won my first match. It's like going it was really great. It's a great sensation to win, but I don't know if it was it was the fact that that I won or that I found somebody that sucked worse than I did. That's right. Good. So that's that's really what it pulled out. Not that I really was anything great. I just found somebody that was suckier. That's Yeah. So was it more the drive to win or was it that the wrestling the sport kind of you took to it? What was it? Why what I why I took to wrestling more than than team sports? Cuz throughout my entire high school wrestling career, I played football. I again I had I was a three sport athlete. In the fall, I played football. In the winter time, I wrestled. In the spring, track and field. But I had to deal with the track coach knowing that if there was a Saturday track meet or a Saturday wrestling meet, he's not going to see me at the track meet. Okay. It is mad because I I threw shot discus. I ran high low hurdles. uh 440 yard dash that I mean you know for a white kid I I I wasn't half bad at speed. Yeah. Especially when it came to hurdles. So And so then So you started when when did you start winning? Well I mean I started winning it by my my first year. Well no freshman year. No my freshman year in high school I set my very first goal. And how that came about was uh my the the wrest coach was also the government teacher. So one day when I was walking up to his desk to turn in a paper, I saw this stack of amateur wrest magazines that was sitting on the corner of of his desk. I like coach I said, "Do you care if I look through a couple of these magazines?" He said, "No, don't be worried. We go make sure this come back up at my desk." No problem, coach. So I take a couple of these and I proves to them. And that's when the world of wrestling opened up to me because it talked about this this magazine talked about nutritional type programs for wrestlers, diet programs for wrestlers, the mental aspects of training for wrestling, the psychological aspect, but also talked about the setting of goals. There was so much information I I was like every other athlete at that point. I I just did it just to be doing something. But now it's like going, "Oh, there's a lot more in depth to this." So, one of the things I did on top of, you know, starting to do exercise and other stuff, I set my first goal. I wanted to be the first freshman ever at Machro Hill McCoy High School to make varsity because nobody had done that before. What was your weight class? This this will be the comical part that you enjoy. Most I weighed about about 165 pounds and most wrestlers think lose a little bit of weight and you're going to be this monster at this lighter weight class. So, I went down to the 155 pound weight class and you don't you're not a monster. You're like your cheeks, they're sucked in. You're feeling kind of pathetic, stuff like that. And as a freshman now, challenging sophomores, juniors, and seniors, there's a huge difference in skill sets, but then also physicality. Yeah. Developmentally. Yeah. Because, you know, as a freshman, you're just starting to hit puberty, you know, testosterone. It's just starting to kick in. They've already got they it's been kicking in for a couple years. They got they got you by two, three years of of that. It just they they're way more seasoned. So I chose that to 165 pound weight guys. Got got beat. Went up the next weight class. Went up to the next weight class. Went up to the next weight class till the last person to challenge was the heavyweight. Heavy weight class at that point time was unlimited. You could wrestle anything. There's a cap. There's no C on to it now. Um, and our our heavyweight I think weighed I'll say right around I'll say 270 280 something. You were 165. 155. You're 155. Yes. Yeah. I I I I got down to Yeah, you cut. And my coach probably should have never allowed the match because it looked like David versus Goliath. Sure. As again, as I always refer to it, heavyweight matches is kind of like, you know, the the dance of the teddy bears. It really is what it is. Then I went out there and somehow uh the heavyweight tripped out over my feet. He fell down. I fell on top. I pin him and I win. So I win the challenge and I still remember to this day my very first amateur wrestling match. My coaches is standing right next I mean he's standing right side because we're waiting for the the this match to finish and for whatever reason I'm just bouncing up and down like a little uh Mexican jumping bead. not knowing why I'm doing it, but I saw all the all these other wrestlers are doing this. I go, "Well, if they're doing it, maybe I should be doing it, too." So, I I'm bounc up and down next to him and my opponent is out on the mat and the referee looks right at my coach. He goes, "Coach, where's your heavyweight?" My coach has got a clipboard on his chest just like this. He's got his arms crossed. He doesn't even look at me. He just points just like this over at me. Referee looks over at me. looks back at my coach goes, "Are you sure coach?" My coach goes, "There was no add a boy, go get him." Nothing like that. It's like it was a sheep being led to slaughter because the match lasted about 20 seconds for sure. Cuz soon as referee blew the whistle, it's like he came across the the mat, crushed me, actually had to stop, turn back around just to drop down two to his knees to sink a half to get the pin. So, as I again as I tell people, I did not set the world on fire. when I first started off, but I kept coming back again and again and again. I didn't lose it season, but I did win a number of matches. And you made varsity as a freshman. You hit your goal. Yes. I had farmers coming out of the bleachers, slapping me on the back, laughing and cackling like, "Dude, you're the funniest aid I've ever seen out on that mat." They're like, "You have no right being out there. I got they got they they got the these big old grizzly bears are trying to swatch you around there like you're just darting this way, darting that way. He goes they're like, "You look like uh you look like a a like a mosquito or a bee on an elephant. That's how small you are compared to them." And they just they just, you know, they just again they just cackled and laughed stuff like that. Again, I had a losing season, but I made varsity. I toughed it out and by my again that coming summer I went back to my wrestling camps, clinics, things of that nature to again make myself better. But by and and I all through that freshman year though, I started hitting the weights because I took in accord with different weightlifting programs that that these magazines talked about. So I incorporated I had a gym class or I would train after school or I get to school early enough to where I could go into the the weight room. We didn't have actually that day. We at that time the universal machine. I don't know if any of you guys ever saw the universal machine was a box, a square box machine, but it had four sides, four stations. You had a you could sit down at on a stool and you could do a a military incline press, but then you could switch the bar back around and then as went back ran out and now you could throw a bench up there and you could do a bench press. So you had like multiple multiple things. You had a lap pulled out, then a seated pull. It It had like I think it was like 12 different exercises that you could do around the four different faces, but only four people could work out on it. And when you think most gym classes has about 30 to 35 people in it, well, most people weren't lifting weights. I was Where were you socially in in the group in your school? What kind of people hung up with? No, there was, you know, as time progressed on, you know, there's definitely what would you call the there's there's the geeks that were that were big time into the mathematics and uh there with all these different types of clubs. Uh there's people that that were in the band. There's people that uh just, you know, I didn't really hang with any of the groups. I basically kind of just kept to myself and I I I was always I've always been an observer of people just kind of sit back and I observe things because you can see good and bad and almost anything. So I tend to sit back and watch stuff. Uh I mean all kinds of funny different comical uh stories growing up of you know because you had all had a study hall and that and some of the gangsters I had at some of the the study halls and some of the the people I encountered you know that were seniors at that time. But it's uh yeah, I'll just say it's it's been it's been an interesting trip. Yeah. But because of the internet and because of Facebook and that a lot of the people that I knew at that time because I was not I was not the party. Like I said on a Friday night the football game's over. These guys they want to go get [ __ ] face. I can't go get [ __ ] face. I'm going to go wrestle tomorrow or or I'm going to go do this or or that the whole night. And first off, do you guys drink beer? I I don't know. Okay. Every once in a while. Okay. But do you like the taste of beer? Yeah, of course. I mean, did you in the beginning, did you like Not at all. No. Every dude I've ever talked, they say. I go, "Well, why did you drink it then?" Because everyone wants to Everybody wants to fit in it. I go I always tell people the first time I tried cheesecake, loved it. Didn't have to. They have to acquire taste for it because everyone said, "You have to quiet taste." Ah, I I don't I don't buy that. So, like I said, I Well, I think a lot of people drink to meet girls. So, you weren't you weren't getting distracted by girls. You were focused on wrestling. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, again, I I didn't seek out girls. Girls see out me. That again I Well, again, that almost sounds really bragosious there. I I don't want to sound like that, but that's the way it did go down for me. It's uh you know high school I had I got cuz I I I started to mature and come into my own and stuff. So I was just a a well-built 185 lb wrestler that uh you know that the girls like oh look at that. Yeah. When is the first time you started sporting your mustache? Well um I I was probably in college. Okay. And and probably over the course of a summer, something like that. I I just thought, well, let's see what what happens. I actually had I had a I sported actually a full beard for about four years, probably during my coaching time at I think Michigan State. And uh then a couple of my my buddies were starting to bust my chops. I like, "Oh, dude, you got to stop eating those white powder donuts." They go, "What do you mean? I'm not eating a white powder. It's dropping down on your chin." Because my chin was turning white. I had a couple spots of turning white that were prematurely I was just getting gray in your 20s I guess. Yeah. And uh it's like going well okay I started coloring. It's like it got to be just too much and then I just I shaved off the beard portion and just kept the mustache. I I learned a lesson of that cuz my kids were young and they only knew dad with a beard. So when I came out they're looking at me like they're scared like they who are you? I should have had them in there with me so they could have witnessed me what I was doing. It's like, so any fathers are out there, if you're if you're sporting a beard or mustache and you decide to take it off and you got young kids, you might want to bring them in and watch you shave so they can see the transformation that's taking place before their eyes. So you were dying your mustache though from an early age. Oh, throughout my entire throughout my entire professional wrestling career, throughout my entire cage fighting career, the color of that hair, eyebrows, and mustache was just for number 45. Even Don Fry one time, he's with me and he saw me just mad dashing through I don't get it, might been a Walmart, whatever, whatever store that that was close by, convenient, and and he's like, "Sever, what what do you what do you need that's so that you're so desperate for right now?" And he sees me picking up two boxes of magic. I just referred to him as I got to pick up a box of magic. He didn't know what it was. That day he sees with the he goes hair color. I go, "Dude, I go it's the psychological edge." If you're inside of a cage, oh yeah. And you look across, you see a grayhaired, gray mustachio guy. Are you going to be intimidated? No. But if you keep it dark and dastardly Oh, yeah. When did you meet Don Fry? Oh, he was uh Don Fry. I met him when I was coaching at Arizona State University. He was one of my uh athletes, but he also lived with a couple of my younger brothers. So, I knew Don on a much more personal basis because I didn't have him just in the practice room. I also had him, you know, you know, I I'd see him on whatever weekends that we weren't doing anything wrestling wise. Uh, I go over to uh pick up uh my brothers because I know my I know my brothers are are starving. It's like, "Okay, we're all going to head to the uh the local buffet." I go, "Don, come along." I said, "I can't leave you behind there. No strays in this family here now." So, I was like, I said, "But you better do me proud." I said, "Don't." I said, "Don't be just eating one or two plates and stuff like that. Think you're full." I said, "You better stick with the herd here right now." So, again, I just I've always busted his chops, stuff like that from from the get-go again. But that's just part of me being a coach because even even even at that time cuz I'm a single I'm a single guy. I'm going out to the bars with the guys cuz they're they're inviting me. Do I drink? No. What? I go to him because it's kind of going right. I'll go with them. I hang out with them for maybe like an hour or something like that. Then I like then I vanish. I'm gone. So I go in there. I'll go. I'll I'll dance a little bit or something like that. But then uh you know I I go in there. But there that was the era that if if two guys were gonna fight they like going let's take it outside. That was not fight right then. When was this? Again we're talking about that 19 70s. Yes. Yeah. We're all talking about that mid70s again. I I I wrestled there from 76 to 81 and then from 81 to 86 uh then as as a coach at Arizona. Yes. For for for a solid decade I was there. So, uh, get out, you know. And you were a three-time All-American, right? Yeah. Three time. Yeah. And then you graduated and continued coaching. Yes. You get stepped into the coaching role. Graduated. My salary at that time, I think I made like $3,000. No third Oh, $3,200 a year. A year. A year. Think about Did they give you a meal plan? Yeah. No, there was nothing with that university. I basically worked a full-time job on top of this. I was working for a weightlifting company by the name of Olympic Enterprises. I I don't think it exists anymore because I know that the owner, he's long gone and that, but uh I was working for this weightlifting company at the time as my day job Monday through Friday, but he always let me out each day. He always let me go early cuz I was a hard worker or I made a delivery. He had we had different dist uh distribution outlets around there or I might be dropping off something in uh Tempe or something like that as I'm heading to practice and I just basically get there time really just to suit up in my outfit and then I'd be jumping into workouts and and just uh helping to run practices or working out with the guys to push them along uh in in their own different careers. Then when practice was done, I'd shower something like that and then I would go up in the office. Now I'm making, you know, helping the coach then with whatever travel what upcoming uh trips, things of that nature. So you coordinate all kinds of uh planes or uh or vans or however our mode of transportation and the whole the whole nine yards. So what happened after you started coaching? What made you stop coaching? And what did you get into after that? Because we're all you were getting close to the UFC in the mid 90s mid80s. Yeah. Nothing ever stopped me from coaching. I I mean, even now just this past weekend, I I I had a couple uh father and a couple ath young athletes that I I did a private I I I will continue to to coach and continue to help. It's uh But you left Arizona. Yeah. Yeah. I I I left Arizona for a job at Michigan State. Got it. Yeah. That's really what it was. Made $20,000. Think about that. What a big move right there. going from, you know, 3,000 or $3,200, whatever it was, and and now making 20,000. It's like, I'm into chips. I'm into chips. You know, life is good. Yeah. Yeah. You have to go back in time because most people now they like going, that's ridiculous. And and I was living in married housing for close to the first for one year before I I was looking for a house. How old were you when you got married? Gosh, you I got married 84. 84. Okay. What was that? How old is that for you? I couldn't even tell you. Wait, year were you born? Yeah, but you were at Arizona State. Yeah. Yeah. You know, just Yeah. Just, you know. Well, I'm just curious because like I imagine with the when you start getting some star power, I imagine when you're going out with some of the fighters that you're going to attract women and that would be like a temptation. But it seems like you were married pretty young and you really just kept in your own lane. You didn't go fool around much. You weren't drinking to start. Yeah. Well, again, I'm sober, stuff like that, you know. So, yeah. Yeah. No, it's like I said, did you never get FOMO? Like you never had the fear of missing out when people are going to parties and things. You didn't care. No, you were focused on what you're focused on and that's all you Well, think about this. Okay. When I was young and single and and she's a little tipsy, pretty easy pickers, isn't it? Yep. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Good strategy. Well, again, wasn't those strategy, but but I I started realizing Yeah. Easy pickets. Yeah. At that point. So, Right. Yeah. So, h how did you So, then you go to Michigan State and how long were you coaching there? I was there just for basically I had a two-year contract that uh didn't quite see the end of the the second year because the what I thought was a good move was not a good move. Oh, the head coach was involved in a lot of things. Oh. That he probably should not have been involved in. And a lot of times if you're the assistant coach, you must be involved in it as well. But Michigan State was kind of like the laughing stock of the Big 10 at that time. Uh but then yours truly here, I was doing two a day workouts with these guys. So that all the athletes would go, I'll be in there in the morning before any of your classes start. I'll be there in the morning and we're going to put in one hour. It was running. It was drilling because I was trying to whip these guys into some kind of shape. it. And if you didn't show up, oh, you would wake up cuz somehow I got into your dorm room and I'd be thumping you on the forehead. And I'd be like, and as you as you open your eyes and you see me hovering above you, I go like, "You and me, private traded. Let's go." Did you whip the team into shape? Did they turn around? Oh, we finished, I think, uh, in in fourth place. I I I'd be in the laughing stock of the Big 10 and to go to be finish off in the top four in one year, you know, that's quite a transformation, you know, but but they and they were seeing the success. So it it they it worked out because actually success helps to be additional success because when you finally start getting a taste of it, it's like going, hey, we don't really suck. We got potential here. Then you're like going now they want now they're trying to get after each other. I don't have to be their conscious. They're keeping each other. Well, it also it also attracts really good talent because especially in wrestling, it's who you're wrestling. It's your it's your training partners every day. And so as the program gets better, you're attracting better wrestlers which now they're make everyone makes each other better. It's like iron sharp and iron. You keep upgrading each other is what you do. There's no other there's no other sport like it that that we go out here in the m we slap pads stuff like that and we get after it. It's like going, "Okay, you got the best me today, but guess what? I'll be back tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. Because you almost don't want to be the best in your gym because if you're the best in your gym, you got to find a new gym sometimes. Yeah. Uh because you want to keep leveling up with training with other people. So, it is really a collaborative effort. It's so funny that wrestling is such a one-on-one sport, but in order for you to get so great to do one-on-one, you it is the people around you. You can't just practice by yourself. Exactly. And it seems like you had a good grasp of how much cardio was important early on. What What was it like in this in the 70s and the 80s? Were were people as focused on technique or cardio? Well, again, I I just did both. But but in order to be successful at anything, it's sort of a lonely path. Um I don't I don't need other people to go run with me. I don't need other people to go lift with me. I don't need that rah rah shish kaba type of thing. I I just I don't need it. time. You know, I we even stated before after uh before we ever got the camera, I I spent many lonely miles driving down that road knowing that, you know, I I've had people say, "I like to go I like to be a fly in the wall and just hang out with you for a weekend." I go, "You couldn't hang." I go I I actually had a couple people try and they're in and they're I'm driving and they're in the passenger seat and they're they're sitting over there and they're they're starting to do what? They're doing the pee pee dance over in the seat and they're like danda we going to be stopping anytime soon? I go, "Yes, we will when the car needs gas." He goes, "Well, how much gas left?" I go, "Oh, we got a half a take." And and they're over there. You I go I And then we pulled on in and I go I go we pulled in. I go as a car is filled up its tank. You go empty your tank. I'm going to go empty my tank and you better get whatever snacks, eats, and drinks you need because the next time we stop is when the car needs gas. Comical note, I had a road trip with Dodd Fry. Oh my god. once won't happen again. We get maybe 30, 40 minutes down the road. He's like, I gotta pee. I think we just left your place. Hey, hold on in. You got to pee. Get another 30, 40. I'm hungry. Why didn't you get some food? Well, I didn't get like, you know, he didn't get a drink. way to stop and get a drink at another location. I might go that was my last road trip because I I don't I don't I don't do that. Everything is precision with me. Time I'm so aware of time knowing that I'm running out of time. I'm in the to the standard person I'm in the third quarter of life. There's only four quarters. Okay. I'm in the third quarter cuz how many people when you look at what is the average uh age of a male far the death tables every insurance company knows about it because they don't want to give you any breaks right now they they what the mortality rates are most men will be uh will perish somewhere in their if they hit 70 to 734 somewhere in that range that's the median what's That that's the middle. Yeah. Wow. Women usually latter 70s. They just outlive smaller. Yeah. Well, you know, I just I Well, the fact that maybe it's because men live with them long enough that they just take their own lives. Ask Don Fry about that. He'll tell you get a prenup. That's his his advice to most young people. Get a prenup. So, but it but no, I mean it it's uh again that's just the the the death tables kind of have different buddies that they run different insurance companies and that's just what what they are. I think. How did you get into Greco? Because collegiate is, you know, not Greco. And so I did this all during my high school years. That You did a I started, you know, during the regulation season. That's folk style. Y and folk style is very close to collegiate style. Uh collegiate style. Oh my god. It just it it bores me to tears to watch college wrestling. It just especially riding type. I'm like, "Oh my god, put me out of my misery. just please. It's and that's what what's tough. How do you popularize a sport, right? You know, they gave one more point for the takedown. Yeah. It's now three instead of two. Whoopde. Give more points on the pin. How many pins do you see in college? No, Manny. No, it's like the rare. It's like, watch where's the rare dodo bird? Will we ever see it? No. Very. It's like you're seeing all these scores being eaked out, you know, three to two, four to two, you know, whoopdeah, you know, it's it's just it just bores me tears. The pin is ultimate victory. If someone because you you you wrestled. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, if you got pinned in a match and you're about to wrestle the same guy again, are you do you have positive thoughts going to your mind or do you have maybe some negative cloudy thoughts that are going to your mind? Yeah. You're not really looking forward to it. Exactly. Yeah. Because that's why wrestling is is both. It's a physical, but it's also a psychological. My is all about psychological warfare. So, to me, it's like ultimate victory, the pin. I always push for the pin. And that's where it le led me to some incredible records through my high school career knowing that uh I mean I got during the during the summer months when I started doing my freestyle of that where I had to wait towards the end of weigh-ins because if I waited early and people saw me at 198 they would move to 220. Oh yeah. Or if I'm at 220 and they can make 198, they go down to 198 or they go heavy because they should know that I'm a very aggressive and physical pinner. Where does that come from? Well, again, stuff that I read. It was from the magazines. Yeah. Again, well, again, just the magazines, but it it talked about the psychological aspect. It never talked about the pin, but in my mind, I kept thinking, well, just just like you said right now, cuz you wrestled. That's why I did I'm not trying to leave you out but but but uh the fact that you're wrestling wrestling if if you just if someone just beats you by a couple points you think okay I can just go back home my skills a little more I get better and and I I I can I can get I get you but when someone physically ms you against your will pins you they have stolen your soul and I was like I was you know like that mat that mat is my real estate and you've just trespassed. That's how I look at I going my point now is I am going to make life so miserable for you. I'm going to drive you off my piece of real estate and everything within my legal confines and even some stuff that's pushing the boundaries of legality. Oh, I'm going to do Yeah. Like what like what what did you do that push the boundaries of? Well, again, it's just there's there's a technique known as a collar tie where you know you know exactly what a collar tie is, but basically is where you know most wrestlers as they're getting close you you you you do like a a shoulder post. Uh what that does it takes you your weight off your toes and rocks it back on your heels. A wrestler can't shoot when he's got when his weight's on his heels. His weight's got to be on his toes. So he's in a forte type motion. So as you get close just just to be able hit a quick little it I I I could I could do several things very quickly towards like I post both my hands. I will hit you and I'll pull you right back in to where you rock back and forth but then I come up hit you with the clubber with a collar tie but I did it so quickly so precisely. But then I also knew where am I hitting you with my collar tie. How am I am I doing it with a hand, a palm, or am I leading with a wristbone? That's right. So, there's a very popular sport out now known that Dana White promotes it. Slap fighting. Power slap. Yeah, power slap. Yeah. So, it's like going, "What's your thoughts about power slap?" Oh, man. I don't I I mean, I I see it when it comes through my feed, but I don't I don't get it. I don't get why everyone's voluntarily getting hit in the face by a huge man. Have you seen it there as well? It looks like a quick way to to lose some brain cells to me. That's what it looks like. It looks like a great way to feel terrible for the rest of your life. Yeah. And you get three chance and but it's but there's no defense. It's crazy. But Dana White says how much safer he has made and it just say there is no defense like like in wrestling you can sprawl and fighting I can at least count back. Yeah. But here, I have to simply I I can't I can't even I can't I can't suck my I got I got to keep it out here. Yeah. And you got to let the guy basically size it up. Wind up perfect to hit you perfectly. He gets he gets three swings to like put on there. Okay. Now I can't believe it. But okay, but this is the way the diabolical mind of Dan howell works. I'll get I'll get into it. I'm not going to compete. I'm going to be a coach. Sure. and I'm going to go get me several athletes, but I'm going to recruit basketball players. Why do you think I'm going to get a basketball player? The hand size, hands, long arms, huge hands, both long arms. Okay, think about that. First off, most people, but basketball players, the fact that they could dunk basketballs and stuff like that, they've got this wingspan. Yeah. So now when when they size up and they're going Yeah. D. By the time they they wind up, they palm a basketball. So when that thing hits you, it's going to cover. And if you can teach them how to lead with the with that palm at all, I see nothing but knockouts. Yeah. You heard it all right here, folks. Coach Dan is telling you how to become a champion. If you're not a basketball player, maybe you shouldn't get into power slab. Yeah, power slab. How did How did the UFC first contact you? How did how did you how did that come about? Um because you had so many accolades. You were in wrestling and I remember I remember being 10 years old and watching you in UFC. I remember you winning because uh we had the whole wrestling team over and we all chipped in five bucks and ordered pizzas and got the pay-per-view. And at that point in time in the UFC, it was all about what fighting style is the best fighting style. So it was wrestling versus jiu-jitsu or I mean I remember sumo wrestlers versus capoera. And it was like the early early days and we were all cheering for you because we were the wrestling team. But there's there's two categories. There are strikers and there was grapplers. There was just the two categories. And when they asked me, "What's your fighting style?" I go, "I'm an American wrestler." Well, they had never heard that before. So, they just put down wrestling. Yeah. But I go, I didn't know fight style. And then I only I only trained for five days. And you trained for five days before that? Yeah. You were already probably in shape for for UFC 4. I trained for five days. for five five days were I went over to from Coar, Michigan. I went over to Lime, Ohio to Al Snow's gym. Yeah. Because they had a ring. I didn't have a ring at that time. And I I trained because L and he had a couple other professional trainees. I was able to get into a ring. So they I had some kind of a confined area and they're they wore boxing gloves. So they're trying to hit me and punch me and stuff like that with boxing gloves on. And I'm bare knuckle. They're like, "Dan, don't don't don't hit me." I go, "I will never hit you, but I'm I'm on a parry. I want to parry your guys' hands and get to clinches because they have they have to be within arms reach in order to punch legs range or bell kick. Too close and they all crumble." But if I could get to a clinch, if I could if I could clinch them or jam again, I'm in a professional streak, so I either had to jam them up against the ropes or take them down or clinch them out in the open. The moment I did one of those three things, I neutralized 90 plus% of their arsenal and my arsenal is just commencing. Did you have any idea of the opponents you're going to face and their styles? No. No. Again, that that's you have to go back a time. That was like the great unknown. How And again, fast forward to today. How many current athletes do you think could handle the pressure of knowing that you're going to show up on a Friday night and you're going to meet the other seven contestants for the first time on a Friday night at the there's not a weigh in because there's no weight class. There's no weight classes. It's a press conference. So at the press conference they'll say athlete number one please stand up. Athlete number one can stand six foot whatever. He weighs this much. This is what his fighting style is. Sit back on down. Opponent number two, you know, Hoist Gracie. Okay. He's this this tall and you know, get that that that's all. That's that's all the research. That's all the information and no one's taking notes. You found out on Monday that you were doing this on Friday basically. Did you Did you know about any of them before you got there? Had you heard of Hoist Gracie or None of them? No. Incredible. I be I spent too much time talking about training camp. Right. Yeah. or five days and an hour and a half a day. What was the interactions between you guys like? Were you Was it already No, I mean it was uh to me I'm cordial about all this kind of stuff because it's I've been all these different wrestling terms. You know, I might bump them just courteous stuff. You know, whatever happens here, that's a whole different pro program was what what's on that map inside that cage, whatever. Whatever happens there, that's just business. I'm not going to be like that. You can't be wired like that all the time. Otherwise, you're going to be in jail. Okay. If you're walk No, you can't walk around like that all the time. No, that's right. Yeah. Got to be chill. Did Did anybody stand out to you in the first press conference? Um I again I I just I not not really. I mean it again I'm I'm flying by the seat of my pants here, you know, at this. Like I said, this is my first UFC. First one, you get go and find out how I got into it. There was uh an elderly woman by the name of Phyllis Lee. She's long gone, but she was a person because there's been three different ownerships in the UFC. So, Art Davey was the businessman that came up with the idea of this cage type of fighting. Our art still alive. He even uh wrote a book uh is this legal? And because it was banned so much as like going Yeah. You know, I remember they had to find specific states that would allow it because so many states said they wouldn't they wouldn't host it. They're fighting their organizations wouldn't wouldn't wouldn't do it. Fast forward to today now they have bidding wars. They're all fighting to get it. Yeah. Because they should know that when the UFC comes in, it's like like a Super Bowl. How many millions of dollars of income is going to hit that area? Cuz every restaurants, hotels, the whole nine yards. So, you know, but I remember there was this lore. I mean, because it was illegal, it it almost as a spectator, you're like, "Dude, we're getting to watch something that's illegal." They had to go They had to go to Vegas. They had to go to Nevada to actually make this legal. Like, there was this It's like a [ __ ] fight. It's like, "Are we supposed to be here?" Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Is this okay? Like, we're streaming it over here. They couldn't even do it here. Like, there was like an appeal to it in that regard. I even think that helped it in some in some ways where everybody is this legal is such a Oh, that was David's book. again. I I think I think it did very well. I I never read the book yet. Probably should say that there. That's all right. Did they Oh, did they pay you to do that fight? Well, the first time you came in, what did they My guarantee? My guarantee was $1,000. Really? And for $1,000, I signed this contract that stated in fine print at the bottom, in the event of your accidental death, they're not liable. And they could, well, there's no rules. It's like what's accidental? There is no accidental here. There's no rules. So, you got $1,000 for the first time you went in there. No, that was my guarantee. That was the guarantee guarantee to step inside the cage. Oh, sure. But I think they were doing $50,000 purses. Okay. At the point at that point. Right on. Yeah. So, that that at that time frame Oh, that that's a couple years worth of salary easily. Yeah. Like I said, I'm working at Michigan State, you know. Got Yeah, that's right. I want to know any memories you have from that UFC 4, though, that first time being in the ring. Well, I mean, you know, if I I've kept journals, so I've got journals from all the way back then that uh you know, like my planners. I I I've as I said before, the fact that I've been living on planners for so many years, I I've got all these planners from time. So, I got actual recollection where I could tell you where I was at 92, 93, 94 on up. I don't keep my planners now. I mean, because it's just mass chaos and but it doesn't have nothing to do with competition in that, you know, that was all about competition. Un unless you think they're going to bring back senior citizen MMA, you know, oh my gosh, that that could be very complicated. Seem interested. Are you interested? Well, and not not slap fighting, but you know, but you know, they they may have to come up with new rules like, you know, can't kick any of the prosthetics, you know, because you hate to see someone's artificial limb go. The bell is going to have to be way louder. Hearing aids, but they don't have to have mouthpiece cuz they take the dentures out and just set them over the side right there. Ring girls have to be over 50. Is that what we're saying? Well, yeah. They they can't. Yeah, they No, no, no, no, no. You No, Right. Right. It's fine. It's fine. where gravity takes its toll after all that. You want you want younger ring girls, but uh yeah. Okay. So, so after UFC 4, did did you guys think you'd have this much fun in an interview? No. Okay. This is incredible, by the way. Incredible ring. We did not know what we were walking into. And this is just an incredible setup. Like, it's a you you went through a time warp. I'm getting flashbacks. It's like uh Yeah. Being in an actual mat room with all the gear. I mean, it's I haven't smelled this smell in 25 years, and so it just instantly hit me when I walked in. It's incredible. No, we're good. Um, okay. So, after UFC 4, how much I'd love to know more about, again, I traded only for five days for that. So, you for my next one, USC 5, I took out all of it was either 30 or 32 because like I said, I only ever did two trading caps. Yeah. 30 or 32 days. Sure. So I did at at that point I I actually left my family behind. Okay. And you went to camp? And I went to camp. Yeah. What did that look like? In Arizona. Oh, it was again a lonely. And was it a lot of wrestling or did you then bring in jiu-jitsu or like cuz you knew now Hoist is there and like how much did you start learning other styles or was that not not not that wasn't an I I just had bodies and lots of bodies. There was a Sun-Kiss wrestling program. So I worked out with some of the wrestlers because the the Sun-Kissed wrestlers because they're some of the most world class wrestlers. So, that's how I was get I was getting my good cardio working with them, but then I did I was doing all kinds of running. I was doing my my lifting. Uh I I never did you work on striking at all? Oh, yeah. No, you did. So, I did a couple nights a week. I would have uh I I believe it was either 10 or 11 sparring partners. Okay. And they were all there to where I would be on again a a a matter of type area and they've got the gloves on and they got shin and they got shin pads on because they're trying to kick and punch me. Yeah. And so and I'm I'm just basically and and I'm I'm out there. I've got I've got boxing gloves on so that but I'm I'm basically throwing like profession punches. I'm not hitting them because I don't want to hurt them. I need them. So again, I'm just throwing things on out, but but then, you know, I I always got the clinches. I always got the taked down. So once I'm taken down, you know, it's a little bit harder when you try to throw on headlocks and and cradles and arm bars and cross faces, but I'm simply slapping on amateur wrestling moves and turning them a little bit illegal. Most amateur wrestling moves hurt to begin with. That's right. Because it's the principles of leverage. Another word that goes along with leverage is it hurts when somebody's torquing your shoulder, throwing a a deep half or they got a a power half on or something like that. So again, that's all I did was but then there was times when that I'd be out on the mat and I would be laying in different positions. I might be laying sunny side up. I know over easy and on my curled up on one side curl and again I would close my eyes and then you would come in and you could come in in any direction you wanted. North, south, east, west, or hover on top and just drop. But the name of the game was the moment you touch, game on. Yeah, it's simulated striking and all submission grappling based. So again, that they're not getting hurt. I'm not getting hurt. Sure. But they're they're they're but I'm just going for touch. So again, that was my my training camp. Okay. 30 32 days. 31 32 days. Yeah. For UFC 5. Yes. Okay. And I set a record. Shortest tournament victory disposion of three men in one night. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And that was that was an I mean multiple matches in a single day in an hour within hours was so the pay-per-view was two hours. So it had to be done. Yeah. You're just turning back in. Yeah. And and that also was helpful because if you if you dispose of your earlier opponents earlier, you know, quickly, then you got more energy for the finals. You hope that the other guy had a tough match in the semis. No, you you do. And that's where literally your match could be done because you don't have internet. There's no nothing that you see. So, you're you're basically your match just got done. So, as you're ordering a drink or whatever uh post fight uh electrolytes, whatever to put back into your body, you're actually staying out there watching the fight unfold. Yeah. hoping that you can see it actually like learn some tidbits here real quick because in about 10 minutes or 15 minutes from now you're going to be back out there probably. Yeah. What did you eat? What did you drink back then? I just had whatever I had some type of electrolyte type of a a liquid but then I always had like some little snacky little things I could put into. So I'm putting in some kind of nutrition so that I have keeping the fuel tank full of fuel. Even also my amateur uh thing I I'd be brown bagging at then but then I I'd have different types of snacks and stuff like but I I probably ate a lot more junk at that point because I might have had been have like a bottle of Gatorade might been like the the treat type of thing that I'm just do a little bit sip here and there but always had like a thermos with water because I really big about hydration but then like you know the the the Gatorade might have been the old kick kick up juice that that kicked you up a little a little bit more but then having you know maybe three four sandwiches in there cut in half because can't eat a whole sandwich before you're in between matches. So, it's like, you know, maybe eat a half of one sandwich, wrap it up in in the the uh the rental wraps and then throw them back in. Who went to the matches with you? Um I travel sometimes again on on Yeah. to the UFC matches. Okay. UFC matches. Well, um who generally went with your crew? I I had a couple buddies that help helped out. Well, if it was again, if it was close, they they could travel. Okay. Because again, it's all cost factors because they're they're not flying everybody in. The the UFC was You paid your way. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Got it. So, I mean, there was Did your family go? No. My I never never told my family. No. No. My my brothers, sisters, no. None of them knew that. You never told them that you were going into the UFC fights? No. My parents never knew. It's like my my parents worried about me when I was in high school. You think I'm gonna tell my I'm climb into a cage? You're gonna go cage fighting? No. No. I'm not. So they found out after the fact. Yeah. They found out after you won that you won. The internet type stuff, you know, started getting little or or word of mouth. What did they did they call you after? What did they were they like why didn't you tell us or I'm glad you're okay? Do you remember any interactions with them after? this there again that's been well been a lot more comical type of thing again as you even say that what dawns on me at one point is like my father because I uh is having a a conversation with with his son and uh I'm I have seven other siblings there's eight of us so and I'm the second on the total second second board uh the cool part is all five males went to college on a full athletic scholarship and all three females basically went to college on almost a full academic. So I always tell people I'm an athlete with a brain and not a dumb jock and trust me I have encountered a lot of dumb jocks. I dude it's good day that you can run with that pig skin or it's a good thing that you can put that orange ball through the hoop or like you know you don't have much else going for you. Yeah. Were you a reader when you were young? You know I I I don't really think I was. I mean I I I've always been a good observer of people you know maybe that's again came along as as uh you know as I started learning more about the sport of amateur because I read so much more about that than anything else but it it did talk about you know again that that whole psychological aspect but then the nutritional aspect so it just showed me more more about life you know like growing up on a farm we had 120 acre farm. So, it was we had to till crops, you know, during in the spring you planted and then uh in the fall you harvest uh but you also had animals. We had both uh crops and we had animals. And so, every day, twice a day, you had to take care of the animals. And one of my jobs because we you named the animal, we we had it. And you learned real quickly not to give the animals pet names because sooner or later they're going to end up on their plate. Don't name the cow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I milked Peggy the belt cow uh for what uh I think four years, something like that. And then uh you know when Peggy's belt gave out, well, Peggy was turned into hamburger. I still remember that day that you know, all of us kids were at the the dinner table and we're all like, "Boo, oh poor Peggy." And my dad's like, "Oh, Peggy never tastes so good." I get But that's as far. Yeah, it is. It's farm life. And a lot of people, you know, they just they go to the grocery store and they pick up their hamburger, they pick up their pork, this, that, their roasted chickens, and they'll realize that was a living animal. Well, we've talked about this about how uh, you know, I don't think many people these days are around death that often because we've outsourced, we go to the grocery store and it's just a piece of meat. And so, we don't actually see death that much in our life. And so it is interesting how being on the farm it's just a part of being on the farm is things you gota you got to butcher things and get rid of them. And usually in like a like fall in the spring we might have let's say between four and 600 chickens. Yeah. There's a there's a chicken coupe and then there's a a fenced area around the chicken coop because it's always good to have the uh the chickens go out into the dirt and stuff like that. It's just good because they, you know, they their digestive system is a gizzard and it helps uh break down their food. They they actually have they'll have like rocks and other kind of stuff, pebbles inside their gizzard area. Why? I know all that because you know, yeah, I've had to butcher and get them. But then on like uh especially when you get to fall, you're going to thin that herd out really quick. And so on one particular weekend, we might take out maybe a hundred chickens. Wow. Wow. To where it's like one after you just grab it by the legs, grab it by by the wings, bring it on over the other one. Just pull the neck on out, you know, take take out take off the head, throw it on there. Head head still squawking over over there. You throw the other chicken off the side and grab grab the next one. And you heard that expression, run around like a chicken with the heads cut off. Chickens will run around with their head cut off. Yeah. So, I' I've witnessed that firsthand. So, that's not just a word. Yeah. Yeah. It came from reality. Yeah. Came from reality. Even as I tell that story to you, I could smell the hot bo the boiling water that you dip the chickens in to help get the feathers off to pluck all the feathers because you have to pluck all the feathers and you don't just pull them on off. You you have to soak them a few times and then you start peeling off all that. Like I said, just one day won't knock off that many chickens. But, you know, my parents for having eight children in the basement, we had a a full 8ft deep freeze. We had a a refrigerator downstairs out in in uh the pole barn. There was another eight two eight foot deep freezes. So we always had maybe three 400 lb of beef at all times and probably you who knows 30 50 chickens that are inside there. So we we we ate well. Yeah. Did you end up selling the rest or like or was it all was it just for the farm or did you I mean that's a lot of chickens. Did you end up like selling them out to other families? No. No, that was for your you guys. Every year consumption. Well, you said how many siblings did you have? Again, you were Yeah. Five boys. Three girls. Okay. But but you if you throw my father into the mix, okay, cuz now you got six males, six foot or better, 200 plus pounds or better. Yeah. Even one s one sister's at six foot height. Other two were just slightly a little underneath that. It's still around that. Again, there's a there's a lot I remember bringing friends from either Arizona State or Michigan State. They they would come over to the farm and my mother would be putting out a platter of potatoes, a platter of chickens, a platter of beef or whatever like that. And and they're like, "What's the occasion?" I go, "Lunch, dinner. Dinner." Well, even breakfast. Breakfast on the weekend it was you. Everyone had a job. You're you might man the toaster knowing that you got to knock out at least a couple loaves of bread toasted and buttered. I'm over there cracking eggs. You're the one that that's dropping them in is there. You're whipping up the scrambled eggs. Someone else is dicing up potatoes that's going in because you got potatoes, eggs, toast. I mean, we ate and real milk cuz Peggy was kicking out about five gallons of real milk. And there's uh if if you let a day five gallons how and so you're milking it twice. Dang. Five gallons a day. One cow. Yeah. Well, I'll say close. Sure. Yeah. I mean, it may not always close. But but as as milk sets there, there's there'll be a top layer of really heavy thick cream and you you take that off and my mother would actually make butter out of it. Yeah. But she even would would at the different uh uh little classrooms and she'd go in with with an oldfashioned butter churn and and let all the kids, you know, work the butter churn there for a little bit right there. And then then she she'd have all these little muffins that that she baked up either the night before, something like that. So each kid would have a little baked muffin with real butter onto it. Whoa, that's good. And where was the farm? Where did you grow up? Newropul again. It it it's right on the borderline because there's even a great story about that. It's on the border between two different school districts. Right on the border. It's on a 3/4 mile deadend road. Dead- end road now. they enrolled when I was there and living and that but uh the road used to go through but there was a bridge that got washed out and the counties came up with with some type of special ruling that whoever lived on this road could go to either or school could either go to NOP school or Montro school and on that road there was the eyes How family they had like 13 kids. Uh my father, okay, my mother, okay, we have eight. There was even up on on on M M13, there was another family, the Ruddy family. I think they had like 12. Wow. So again, as I always tell people that when we played football, we had first string, second string, and even some third stringers when we're playing football. But but but no it was uh you know growing up on a farm it just it teaches you responsibility because you have to you have to get your chores done in the morning as my father said son do you like to eat what he has to do to the animals twice a day once in the morning before you go to school and once at night. Now once at night if you're a regular student that is not involved in in athletics you're getting out around what 3:00 which is no no big deal. But if you go to an away game, let's say a football game that's away, you're coming back or a wrestling meet that's away or a track meet that's that's away and you're coming back and it's 10, 11, 12:00 at night. Got to feed the animals. Still got to feed the animals. Still got to milk Peggy the milk cow. Wow. Yeah. Otherwise, and she's and she's letting you know because she's moving because she's in pain. Yeah. Because she's used to having her u you know, her her take uh lessened out as well. Is the farm still in the family? Yes, it is. Oh, that's ironically it is. Now, it's it my grandfather owned it originally. My father was in his words, he was the last twinkle in his father's eye. So, my grandfather owned it. My father owned it. Now, all eight of us, okay, own it. So, and it's uh it we all we have to have a little beating, a little pow, because none of us are getting any younger. I don't know how that works like that, but we're all getting older. What we we have to know is what happens to your shares once you're gone, and that has to be addressed. So, I want to turn I want to turn the place into a business or corporation. That's what I do. So, it's easy. So you just have x number of shares of yours and and it gets paid out to your Well, I've heard you also own an island. Is that is that true or is that not true? Yes. Is that right? But okay. How Michigan I always don't I I always usually tell people I have a waterfront property because I wasn't in there. Don't don't stuff like that. But it's like but there's so many comical type of things. I go, "Yeah, I own an island. It's referred to as Gilligan's Island." If you ever watch a sitcom right there, I'm usually Gilligan and my wife is skipper. She tells me what to do all the time. Yeah, I get hit with a hat every now and then, too. So, but uh No, it it it's cool because it's it's roughly 3/4 of an acre island and you I I never owned a boat before other than a canoe that I would use to to take my kids out fishing down in the cold water area. And then now doing this I go we we first time ever owning a pontoon boat. Now you would think that like if if you own a car you have to have a driver's license. You actually have to taste take a test show your proficiency. Not with a boat. Any idiot can own a boat. And I say it like that because there's a lot of idiots that do own boats that they don't understand. You're supposed to stay away from each other by a certain distance. You're supposed to stay away from the shoreline by a certain distance. You're supposed to stay away. There there's just proper etiquette. Well, you're also supposed to be drinking if you're driving a pontoon boat. And you break that rule. So Oh, they Well, they they are you you go up there on a holiday. Well, they uh there's there's one of there's one festival they have right there. It's called Flock to the Rock. There's like this there's this one big rock that you could see in in water, but it's it's very shallow. So, you got all these pontoon boats are tied up with each other and the water might be up to your waist is about about high as it is. And everyone is out there drinking, but there's no restrooms. There's no restrooms. And they're out there all day because they had all their eats and drinks and the whole nine yards. always it's like and and some people bring their kids. I go I would not be if kids I'd be way out on the perimeter here right now because kids want to go underwater. Yeah. That's that's called PP water. Yeah. Well, as we were driving into Michigan, I wanted to ask you about this. We saw a lot of signs. That feels like something that's probably changed over the years. Um on the border right there on the border. It's Yeah, right on the border. Well, no, it's throughout Michigan to begin with, but right on the border there. They're just vying for it's even you'll see difference of and in and one mile you'll see a difference between gas prices too. Yeah. Because each state it's just a little bit different under gas prices. I as I travel east to west or west to east I always look at where's my best gas prices. Yep. Missouri is always a winner. I don't know why how Missouri is always the cheapest gas I find. It's kind of like the moment I get into that state, I want to fill up. And just as I get ready to leave that state, I want to fill up again. Yeah. Even though I still got plenty of gas to keep on going. No, because it's the cheapest gas. What What is your experience with the cannabis industry coming in to Michigan? And do you think it's been like a net positive or a net negative just from from the way you've observed it, you know, or has it been nothing? Has it been neutral? I mean, I I I look at Well, again, I've I have different people try trying to, you know, bring me into the uh the cannabis industry. Oh, they want to partner with you on businesses. Well, yeah, but it's kind of like going, "What what are the benefits?" Cuz I'm I I view cannabis the same way as drinking. If you're drinking, don't be driving. Sure. Drink at home. Party at home. I could care less. If you want to get [ __ ] face, then stay home. Same way, smoke it up. Yeah. especially if it's it's TH uh Ty content, stuff like that. You don't want to be behind the wheel, right? Okay. There's a lot of health properties to marijuana and so it's like if it can help ease pain and that comfort, I'm all for it. I've seen a lot of athletes using it to train sometimes. I I won't say about that. There's there's there's I witness all kinds of athletes doing all kinds of things that I'm thinking, well, if that works for you, if that works for you. Yeah. But it's it's like, you know, a lot of athletes once they're done, they want to drink a drink a beer or two and you know, smoke a fat smoke a fat boy and then like or or the bog. Yeah. Well, actually, at one point in time, is it up there? Did you have one? Oh, I I've got I've got a bog. You do? Yeah. Okay. Oh, I don't smoke. Yeah, someone gave you one or something. But yeah, I got a couple presents. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Put them up with the trophies. Exactly. Has anybody noticed? That was that smokeathon that was in the Yeah. I smoked a bail of weed that day. Yeah. Yeah. We had that father son. Boy, you just need I had the mud cheese. But but no, no, that that's usually what my comical lines and they're like, "Dude, you know what?" They're like, "But the guys like, "Oh, Dad, you're being a pussy." He's like, "No, not I'm being pussy." He go, "I'm not into it." I go, "Can't you just respect the fact that I don't want to I'm not into it." And I But I always would tell him, especially early on, I go, "I like to eat." And I go, "And if I'm in your home and I'm smoking up a joint there with you, and then all a sudden I tear the refrigerator door off its hinges because I'm going to be the the carnivore that's looking for something to eat and your your cupboards get all trashed up there cuz I got the munchies." Well, that's on you because you had to have dad smoke a a joint. So again, I use comedy because it gets me out of it. Yeah. Okay. I just I I've used comedy a lot throughout my my life. Did you ever have any involvement with UFC the business? Like did they ever was there ever opportunities to partner into the business or what was the or were you predominantly just an athlete that they hired to kind of That's all I really was. Yeah. Just really was an athlete. Although I think there's some real opportunities there that they have not put together yet. I won't discuss here in public right now. But, uh, if there's any financial people out there with very deep pockets that want to start up an MMA company, I've got the perfect, uh, tool that will uh, or outlet that, uh, would overtake it. Oh, yeah, man. We Let's talk about that after we go offline. Oh. Oh, right. All right. Stay tuned. Might be a part two. Incredible. So, then Okay. So, then you're in the UFC. You win the Ultimate Ultimate. You win UFC 5. Uh, super fight with Shamrock. You got the poster. Uh, and then how what happened with the WWF? Did they that you know my my first career was professional wrestling. That was my Yeah. Yeah. I was doing professional wrestling before doing anything. Oh. Tough band was my would be the second thing that I did. Okay. The UFC did not exist until December 93. Right. And even then, there was no pay-per-view. In order to see a pay-per-view back then, pay-per-views were only in major cities. So, if we're down to cold water, Michigan, there's not here. You couldn't even get it. You you you go to like Grand Rapids, you go up to Lancing, uh you go to a major city, Detroit, you go to a major city and it will it will be playing at a movie theater. Now, people are going to are going to be watching this going, "What?" Because they're so used to, fast forward to today, you can watch a pay-per-view right on your cell phone. Even back then when the cell phone was just coming into its own, there would be people at the UFC show. Video telecasted it to their network. Yeah. People are paying to watch the pay-per-view off of their stream versus paying the UFC. So again, there was this there's a lot of things that that the a lot of different encounters that the UFC had to go within. There's there's a way that you can black out an area within a certain, you know, you know, maybe 50 miles of of the city, you know, no one has the right to to be. So people are going to travel in because, you know, people can't wait until it comes out. It's a blockbuster video. They they want to see now. Yeah. Because that's what the cell phone really is. I need to see it. I need to see it now. So then, okay, so you pro wrestling pre UFC. Yes. And then into UFC and then did how did that lead to Vince McMahon? How did that lead to the WWF? Well, once I was okay, I was doing a professional thing, but then I started getting to be known more in the uh profession circle there as well because I I continued. Did you have an agent? Uh I well I I the only agent I really had was uh again this the one one elderly lady Phyllis Lee was gone but she was the one that that diligently to point of excessively kept calling Art Davey. Literally the first time I I finally met Art Davey, I it was at a professor show and I could almost tell he was annoyed. I'm just meeting him for the first time. He's annoyed at me but only because of Phyllis Lee because she called him. Again, this is this not call off of a cell phone, call off of a landline. Yeah. Because cell phone didn't really exist at that point. So, she just made so many phone calls that he finally came up and watched me at a professional wrestling show. So, I'm there wrestling at a professional wrestling show. I think I was wrestling Hawk from the Legion of Doom. Oh, yeah. Right on. So, and and uh you know, I come I come back and and uh and I I beat our Dave for the first time. And so, he's like he's not in a good mood because he's been dealing with Phyllis. And now he says ask me, well, you know, so what's your amateur fight record? I don't have one. What's your Oh, no. What's your professional fight record? Oh, I don't have one. Well, what's your amateur fight record? I don't have one of those. I go, what what are your skills? Well, I'm a wrestler. He goes and he's like he's he's literally he's almost ready to like take a walk, you know, at that point. I I said I said and and like, well, Mr. Davy, I said, maybe I don't have actual combat experience the way you think I should have. I go, "But I've been to every third world country that has had a wrestling program." I go, "I've been on mats that I've I've watched a couple of your matches that that you put out." I go, "They're tamed compared to what I had to endure in a sport of freestyle or Greco because they're not doing folk style. They're doing freestyle or greal." Mhm. But because there's three referees, there's a main referee that's in a center mat that's with you. And then there's a side judge over here and a side judge over there because always looking for confirmation. Did was that a one-point takedown? Was that a two-point tilt? Was that was that a three-point tilt? Uh, you know, that's what they're looking for for points, knowing that the Russians don't like Americans. Yeah. There's always been this headbutted, but it's kind of going but it's our politicians that make this headbutting. I've been to Russia a number of times. I've got people that email me still to this day from Russia that they they're born and raised and because they had a preconceived idea of what an American was like and they just couldn't believe how nice I was, how polite I was, but then how astute I was to the game of wrestling or submission grappling because I I I conducted some seminars in Russia and then I had all these dignitaries again just just in in a little room that were just kept asking me question after question and I throw a little bit of humor here then when I because I know that humor goes a long way. Oh yeah. It's always good to get people to laugh a little bit smile and then like they're like you don't seem like you're you're trying to pull a wool over wool over our eyes. I go I said guys I go I'm not here. I I have no agenda. You guys invited me to come over here to do this teach you something like that. I will gladly I go as I teach out there I go I I I like people ask questions so that if I'm walking out there to teach it's it could be out of the can the same stock type thing but the first question that comes now we're off the races they asked the question now I'm doing it a little bit more specific it comes the the the clinic or the seminar becomes more personalized for you and then someone else realize well I'll ask a question now and then it's like lighting a fire. It just takes off and then but then they I've told my how I feel about politics that most politicians don't if you ever shake a politician's hands it doesn't have calluses. It's manicured because they don't do hard labor type work. I still have calluses and stuff like that. And uh it's it's like, you know, yeah, there's there's there's a lot of these a lot of these politicians, they need to take a couple classes and back and get in get right with the people because the Constitution starts off with we the people. That's right. Not us and y'alls. Yeah. So, okay. So, let's go back to Art Art Davey. So, you tell him, "I've been all over the world. I've seen all of this." I said, "What does he do?" And I said, I said, "You'd be surprised how close something like this." I mean, because he was literally ready to just just to take a walk. So, I I think he he simply took a chance. But then again, as time passed on, see, I did not know certain things because he was partnering with Hian Gracie, eldest son of the Gracie clan. Yeah. And so if he's the matchmaker and you have your brother who's in there, are you picking out all of the best cream of the crop? Cuz you got your partner. He doesn't know. Again, I'm I'm not saying this is what he done, but Well, UFC has been huge for jiu-jitsu. Well, well, but I want Could you lead on every time that Hoist won, they did not make the announcement, Ho Graci won, it was all commercialized that Graci Jiujitsu beat Taekwond do. That's right. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu just beat karate. Gracie jiu-jitsu just beat boxing. They were selling franchises. The Gracie family made an awful lot of money that Art Davey never saw any of because they're starting up gyms all over the place. Well, you have a gym. We have a Gracie. Yeah, there's Gracie gyms everywhere. Yeah. But if you want to put that little Gracie logo, this is how much it's going to cost you. Yeah. Each one of those students that sign up, a certain percentage goes back to the Gracies. Wow. and you're painting his head think from a business perspective I take my hat off to them phenomenal business plan but they weren't buttering art Davies read as well so I again I look at myself as the great disruptor you foiled the plans yes I did UFC 5 yeah right well again but again just see even in my final fin years. My final four or five years of competition. I wanted one more match with a Ken Shamark, a Mark Coleman, a Hoy Gracie. Drug test us both to let people know Dan Sever will finish out his career drug free, steroid free, even hoist popped. I be when they told me that hoist popped, I be you got to be kidding me. He popped. because he must have been using the weak stuff because he didn't look like he had muscle one on himself. Not worth it. Yeah. But again, again, you know, being a wrestler, I understand body, you you never judge a book by its cover because sure, you know, 150 pounds could can be can come packaged lines of weight. Could be short, squatty, tall, lanky, and each one has obstacles to it. Tall and linky. They're usually more of a leg type of guy. They they throw the legs in on you and they'll stretch you right on out. Well, Demetrius Johnson, smaller guy. arguably a goat. I mean, of the whole sport. Yeah. Oh, man. Animal. Yeah. So, totally. So, okay. Yeah. So, the Gracies, I mean, there's no question that have a side business or they weren't they weren't connected. UFC and Gracie Gyms have no formal business relationship, but as you keep announcing, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is beating all these different fighting styles, and now Gracie Jiu-Jitsu gym opens up in your area. Yep. That's the one that that that I can see that as being I mean to your point great business move. No, it was again that's where you know take my hat off to him and they branded it. I remember because there's jiu-jitsu and then there's Gracie jiu-jitsu and I remember going what's the difference and I still don't know if I know the difference other than there's a name on it which maybe that was part of the plan. You know it's all part of the the heritage that Helio Sure. you know who he learned some of his stuff from. So, it's like, yeah, they can show you the family tree while they're Okay. I still don't know. How did you get into the WWF with Vince? Well, um I'm not sure how I got Phyllis. Well, again, I I don't think she really it was I think because that came after the fact of I'm already into the UFC. So, I think the fact that I've got notoriety off of the UFC because I end up winning a couple of their events. So, they just give you a call one day and like you're going into the pro, you're going to W. They gave me a phone call in the beginning and so I end up I met with them once kind of very kind of lukewarm. Not not all that uh impressive. Okay. WCW finds out. Yeah. Ted Turner. Yeah. Eric Bishoff. Bishoff. Yeah. So Bishoff's like, "We want him now." So they call me up. I go visit with them and and then Vince and his crew hear about this. They bring me back again and they agreed to all my terms. Wow. Did you enjoy pro wrestling more or do you enjoy cage fighting more or do you enjoy wrestling? Cage fighting. Okay. Okay. Okay. But amateur wrestling. Amateur wrestling. Number one. Okay. It will always be number one to me. Yeah. For sure. It provided me with all the opportunity. It was that foundation, the work ethic, the mindset that carried over into But even as a fighting I guess pro wrestling isn't necessarily a fighting style, but cage fighting to wrestling, you still prefer wrestling as a fighting style. Like you had more fun. Oh yeah. Wrestling. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then which was you got pro uh cage fighting and pro wrestling. Cage fighting you prefer. Yes. Because it's not predetermined. No. Profession wrestling. We already know what's going to happen, how long, because as I stated earlier, WWF, it's a welloiled machine. The biggest merger in sports merger history. You got the UFC and and WWE under the same umbrella of TKO. That's right. What was that? 300 billion, not million, billion dollar merger. The UFC is a proven billion dollar a year commodity. It It struggled in the beginning. Today it's a welloiled machine. There's uh when you look at the the complex that uh the Fertida brothers and and Dana White uh basically have built I mean what an empire and training complex that athletes from around the world can come to and stay and and they learn about nutrition at and go that's fast forward today. Who had all that all that back way back then? Yeah, that was you. That was the magazines they were teaching you. Nobody else was lying in my pocket other than myself. I I I I ponyed up everything. But like I said, you know, learning, you know, as you guys come in, if you're electrician, you're a plumber. Oh, barber system. Need need a room, need an addition. Yeah. Run some lines for me. Yeah. Or speaking to, you know, my uh my Czechoslovakian dude that I understand every fifth word out of him. Don't cut my head off with that song. Have you followed the UFC closely since you left? You know, this this is where I get myself in trouble because I'm aware usually after the fact who wins, but I don't watch a lot of television to begin with. Oh, in general. Yeah. I just I don't I mean it was growing up we were always outside. Yeah. You know, it it was a magical type place to grow up because it was it like Tom Sawyer because we had two different creeks that went to our property. So, fishing, hunting, but whatever the season was, we didn't actually ever look at there's actually a hunting season. We went out if there's rapids, raccoons, deer, it's our property. We hunted when I went when I finally went to the I think it was at junior high that that was when you guys you could bring your gun into school the gun cabinet or something. Yeah. Well, get there's guys that would drive their their pickup truck the four pickup truck and they have a gun rack. Yeah. And you drive that to school. You You can't do that today. It's like no big no no because we got too many idiots in this world. But at the same token, it's supposed to be a gun-free zone. To me, it's like every teacher part part of your your teaching requirement, you I want you be certified and a firearms and I want you to have a firearm in your classroom on you so that if something goes down, whatever perpetrator just came in, I want them to be gunned down by a teacher. Again, that might sound kind of sick and twisted, but no, I think Why do people attack schools? Because it's the gunfo. Hey, let's take a break for a second. That light just went out. All right, we're back. The lights back on. Oh, we're back. We're in. Yeah. All right. I was wondering how many Stay tuned for part two. Yeah, exactly. Intermission without the break. That's right. Are there any fighters that have that you have watched because you were so interested in them since you left? Well, no. I I I will watch a select batch, but it's who have been who have been some of your favorites to watch? Well, I mean, we get Well, you know, they talk about like the greatest heavyweight that they're talking about right now. Yeah. Okay. Which is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Yeah. That they're talking about John Jones. Yeah. Again, it's Jon Jones is an amateur wrestler. That's right. I have not seen John Jones use one iota of amateur wrestling yet. Yeah. He's got a spinning back elbow, a spinny back fisk. I mean, very creative. Don't again, don't get me wrong, but he's never showed one iota of wrestling, but he's got he's got a good work ethic. And I I got to say I give him kudos for when Trump was there for if he won the match to do the little do the little trope shuffle. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right. That was that was pretty comical. Well, it's been an interesting progression in UFC, I think, because wrestling has had its ups and down. I mean, all the different styles kind of get worked and or emphasized and then counters are developed towards them and all of that. And I think it's becoming I mean with the Dagistanis they're huge wrestlers sombo and wrestling and so you got Khabib and you know now Islam who's coming up with his fight. I talked about this decades earlier. I go in the beginning they had Americans, Canadians, Brazilians and a few Japanese. That was it. I go, as we stated earlier, I've been to every third world country that has ever had a wrestling program to know that I' I've eaten their food. I've drank their water. I've got Montazuma's revenge. I've tried to I've tried I've tried to keep the Sphinx ring pinched down right here cuz I want to go blow something out out the portal here right now. And I'm wrestling on this crappy mat cuz it's all just tied together. and and and I'm wrestling with some of the toughest people in the world while pinching my sphinxer down and people just don't get it. They just don't get it. It's like even I talk about that it's like once the match is done raise my hand I'm done. I don't have to I don't I don't know where the bathroom are but by the stench it's over that corner over there because I got to go and and and both matter because you're running there where's the toilets? I see showers but I don't see toilets. showers are the toilets because there aren't they don't have the westernized stool that you sit down on. Yeah. There's two foot pegs. You just drop and you got to hit this. Okay. That's right. Now, it's okay if you're putting out a slug, but if you're putting a buck shot, watch out. Yeah. And and so again, you you you're down to squatted position. So you got the shaky shakys and and you're you got the shitty shitties and then you look like where's the toilet paper? There is no toilet paper. They got a old rusty coffee can that's sitting there with water. Oh man. That again you shake hands with the right hand. You dippy dippy dippy swishy swishy swishy dippy dippy dippy swishy swish. Okay. Which is okay if you're the first guy. Yeah, that's using the coffee can. What do you think that coffee can looks like after, you know, half the day has gone by? Yeah. That's not rust. It looks worse than coffee. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's got I I after my very first trip, I learned real quick, make sure that you got kale pectic and you got uh a pepto-bol because your stomach is going to get upset and you're going to have the shits. What's your favorite country you've been to? Well, again, I I enjoyed them all. Okay. for different reasons. Okay. But I I enjoy travel. But then to see how other people live, but then I I bring back some of these ideas and to the states is like going, you just don't realize how good we have it here right now. And we do. Yeah, we do. I don't think people are thankful enough. Well, the fact that you came, you walked in, we turned on a light switch and electricity came on. Totally. There are some countries that it's like the generator's down again. The power grid is down again. They don't have cell phones. You right now they're looking at more and more people from Africa bringing in more the competitors from Africa and that as well because more or where do they want to open up the next uh UFC training site because they they've got several around the world right now developing where you'll get Yeah. Exact. Exactly. Mexico big time at the boxing, but they got a big uh UFC training facility down in Mexico City. Yeah. And they've got a couple other places, but you know, to go to Dagistan, they they haven't brought in they again, I should probably shouldn't even say this publicly, but I will. They haven't brought in a Bulgarian or a Mongol yet. You heard it here, folks. Dan S talked about the Bulgarians and the Mongols. There has been a hate relationship for hundreds and hundreds of years. You want to see a fight? It it might have been a wrestle match, but a Mongol versus a Bulgarian, you want to put them in a cage now? Oh. Oh, wow. That'll sell that'll sell pay-per-views. And you heard it here, folks. [ __ ] versus a Bulgarian. But again, it's because of centuries of fighting and hatred. They just passed that from father to son to grandson. Da da da. Have you heard any of the recent uh scandal going on in the UFC around uh fighters being paid to throw fights? And have you been following that at all? Yeah. Um have you ever been did you have you ever been approached about throwing a fight? Sure, I have. You have? Yes. How like how many times do you think you were approached about throwing a fight and being paid to throw a fight? Oh, different types. I mean, five times, 10 times. I'll just say a few different times. Okay. Yeah. But then there's there's other times that depending on the opponent, I simply took it easy on him and somebody's like, "Oh, you threw that fight. Why is there no fight?" Just because I took it easy on a guy, I go, "This guy's only going to make a thousand bucks to show up here." Yeah. If I pulverize him, he's got to go back to work. He can't go back to work if his flippers hanging off like this. His neck's twisted off on this way. I I I go easy on people I know that I don't have it. It's not going to be a tough night on me. So, but no, I've been been opposed. I've been approached on the different times. There's a couple times I did do work matches because you did work matches. Yeah. What do you mean? I got paid. Oh, okay. Paid to take it easy on a guy. Oh, got it. Okay. Yeah. Not to throw it. Yeah. But it's kind of like going, "I'll pay you. Take it easy at me. I'll pay." Don't rough them up. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, "I got no problem with that. I'll make a few extra bucks. Sure. Outcomes the same." Yeah. Yeah. We'll get like like uh Travis Fton. Okay. He's long gone. Okay. But Travis Fton, he had actually holds a record for the most cage fights, period, boxing matches. He had it kind of, you know, but again, he's he's probably not a great name to bring that up because uh he he he's no longer alive, a much younger person than what I am. Uh and he basically ended up going to prison and and he was found hanging in his cell. So, uh but again, I'll let you guys do your own research on on that one. But, uh I fought Travis on a couple different occasions. There was like and and and you know a couple were like these hillbilly biker type of things that he put on and and just like there's no pay-per-view or stuff like that. So it's like it's like prof it's like oldfashioned profession wrestling. We should be know who's going to win and roughly how long just put on an entertaining fight that looks like a fight. Kobe bee entertaining. Yeah. And then that that and that's what it was. And then but I I had a fight where uh with him where the promoter accused me of throwing the fight which again I won but he's like Travis F never threw an overhand right and he knew for throwing overhand right and then and the pro asked me I go why are you asking me why don't you go ask Travis Fton he's the one I don't know why he's not thrown overhand right well it turns out. He had broken his hand a couple weeks earlier. He needed the money. So, he didn't tell the promoter, didn't tell me, which again, I don't care cuz I'm not friends with with Travis. We're we're just this was at the point where we're just fighting each other. But then when I had to fight him again after the fact there, I tore him up so bad, I sent both him and his wife to the hospital. Now, you got to be wondering, yeah, what did dad do to his wife? Nothing. I didn't even know she was there, but she was there. She was like seven or eight months along pregnant because of she sees what I'm doing to her husband is putting stress and she went into premature labor. Yes. So it sound like dad was a pretty damn bad man. Send husband and wife teams to the hus. No, I didn't even know she was there. But uh you know she did not you know they calm her down stuff like that and the child was born you know later on time and stuff like that but it's a pretty comical story I think. Who else do you keep in touch with um like Don Fry? Any others from sort of the that that era? I mean it's uh I I've reached out a little bit more lately. I I if you could be a fly on the wall and just watch me throughout the course of the day, I'm a oneman machine. Yeah, I still it's evident. Yeah, it it's like I wake up early and I'm on my laptop. I've had lots of laptop issues to f point that I've got a brand new laptop but in the process of all the the download stuff like that and like it somehow brought back a couple different other computers that were long away toasted but uh I have a lot more people in my contact base now. Yeah. Uh, but I'm still dealing with two different email addresses. Actually, three different email addresses. Just there's a it stuff that I know you guys understand a little bit more, but I don't. I'm Neanderthal man that would never invented the uh laptop or computer in general. So, construction and food, all that. Yes, I could. So, how often are you staying in touch with Don Fry? Oh, I I touch base with him a couple times a week. Oh, okay. That regular? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's cool. Yeah. I know it just it just you know just I'm concerned about him. So that's why I'd like to stay stay in contact there with him. Plus, you know, I we're doing a podcaster with him as well. You know, that's something that we'd like to continue and and uh I know when I get out there that uh probably uh once a month I'll probably drive down to his place again just to hang out with him all day and probably spend the night down at at his place and then uh you know, raz him a few more time. Then he'll probably just kick my ass off his property and there you go. I I I served my purpose. What was it like getting into the UFC Hall of Fame? I'll just say uh nice. Again, I don't I don't know if that's even It's nice to be recognized for your achievements. The first time I ever got put into a Hall of Fame, I was put into Arizona State's Hall of Fame. And I kept thinking, I go, "Well, don't you have to be done with your sport? Does you have to be done doing it?" I mean, I go, "I'm done wrestling for ASU, but I'm not done wrestling." And like, but then like, "Okay, well, sure. I'll go do it." So, I I end up uh being put in their Hall of Fame. So, that again, that's my my very first one. And again, I fast forward to today. Couldn't even tell you. I'm in either I either have 20 20 Hall of Fames I'm in and 30 championship belts or 30 Hall of Fames and 20 championship belts. I just had no do no recount. I just don't want to take the time out to do it. Does it come with any perks being in the UFC Hall of Fame? Like could you get tickets to any match or could you get what happens there? As long as you put in your prerequisite far enough out. Okay. for example, like the, you know, the big thing that's coming up in 2026 is the UFC White House show, which my better half really would like to go cuz she would like to beat Trump if if at if at all possible. Okay. Did you put in a note? Did you put in a request? Yes, I put in a couple different requests, but the thing is that's going to be one of those that's a big one. That's going to be that everyone's going to be but but okay. Now, the alter ego part of Dan Sever is thinking this if something was going to go wrong. Yeah. What show better to have something go wrong at? Because you had someone take a pot shot at Trump before. You seen what happened with Charlie Kirk at that thing. So public events are getting a little bit scarier for people little dicey with with strong opinions about things. Yeah. All the more reason for a guy like you to be there to protect the president. Really well the beast. Yeah. Yeah. But he he's got so much security around him. But again, I I know that that will be that should be topnotch. But that'll be also one of those events that everybody, their brother, mother, aunt, uncle, will be trying to get into as I go. I I put in a couple requests. I haven't heard anything back here. It's like crickets, crickets because they all know that it's going to be the who's who of political leaders and things of that nature that will be there and probably only so many there's not going to be an audience really for that because it's all going to be just everything's handpicked. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. For that. Did you ever meet Trump in the when you were in the WWF? Nothing like that. I know bed show or something like that, but no. Are any of your kids I'd like to Are any of your kids into it? Because I would imagine if they're into UFC, they could get you could go with them to watch or anything like that. As I stated earlier, they were I kept them in the dark. They did not know what dad did. Um Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. When I when I left, Dad's just at work. Dad's a traveling businessman. That's all they knew that dad's gone for the weekend. He's he's working. I kept it like that until um my oldest son, Michael, at the time, he I I forget what what grade he's in, probably fourth, fifth grade, something like that. And uh maybe a little bit older than that. Um one of his friends brought in a magazine. It's kind like they're in the class and one of his friends bringing a a magazine and it's a professionalist magazine and as they're flipping the magazine. He's like, "That's my dad." And uh the teacher was right there and even the teacher was like, "Sure, sure, Michael, that's your father." Well, show and tell was a few days later and I was showand tell. And because even the teacher said he goes, I didn't believe that. I go, well, his name last name is Sever. I mean, it might have been a little little into it that maybe, you know, but it's like, you know, I again that was the comic of the Iowa show and tell. Now, another comical story with that was that I had my first action figure that came out. And so again, my oldest son, he was into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. So, it's like, you know, he's So, on on the little kitchen table there, I I put out all the the Teenage Mut Ninja Turtles stuff like I I threw my action figure into the pile and he's he's down there and he's eating his Cheerios or whatever. He's eating his eating his breakfast and he's still crashing booming going down. I go, I go, "Michel, oh, Michael." I see I see Raphael. I see Don Tells up like that. Go, who's this guy right there? He looks like I don't know. And I hold right next to my face. Daddy look like anybody you know at all. You know he looks like me and he looks over like no like there used to be a show art ling art ling lighter and he used to say kids say their daughter the same like kids are honest though. That's right. He did not like I like going whoopd toss the action figures I go back out go to work. So you didn't get any of your kids into wrestling or fighting when they were young? amateur wrestling. Again, for the girls, they did have amateur wrestling at that time. So, but they all got involved in volleyball, basketball, track, and and the boys, again, all of a sudden, basketball player. I never forced any of my kids to go follow dad's footsteps. And as you seen out there, I've got a couple different basketball hoops and I actually have all the orange cones. So, I simply knew how to put together drills. Okay, dribble with your left hand, dribble with your right hand, pass the ball back and forth. Okay, I shoot from here. All kinds of stuff. And I I used to go out there and play pig with my kids. I sucked at basketball, but and they usually always beat me, but I still try to do a little bit of that bond type of time there with them. Same way with baseball when they first did T-ball like the T-ball thing and then whacking in there and stuff like that and then got to a point you're playing catch and you know, I got a big enough yard where it's my baseball diamond. It's my football field. you know, uh, my better half wanted to put different type of trees over. I go, "No, that's my football field. That's my baseball diamond. That's all everything. Soccer because I got all the equipment to play all these different games. Plus, I held camps here. So, like they're not if it's a beautiful day outside. I because I I probably was one of the first people that I took the people outside to where I take them over to like a sand volleyball court. I I I did this up and when I when I had my home in in ASA, Michigan, I was renting uh these uh small little campuses, a college campus because you know they're not in business in the summertime. So I could get a dormatory and get a meal pass for each each kid and uh then uh you know take them outside and to the sand volleyball court. So I said, "Okay, come on guys. Let's head on out to the the sand volleyball court. Kick off your rest of shoes, take your socks socks on off, take the shirt off. Let's get a little bit of that vitamin D on these body stuff like that. They're out there and I go, "Come on out." I had one of the guys out there and and I'm showing a few techniques and then I basically I foot sweep it. Boom. Knock them down into the the sand and he's like he got shocked and look look back at me. I go, "What's the matter?" He go stay down there. We can come up there and go, "Come get some." And like he comes right back and comes right back at me again. Something like that. And like and and take them they take down. I I fall down at the sand. Some stuff like that. Okay. Next. And I had a couple groups. It was a blast cuz I had him out there wrestling in sand and then and then then there was like this little little lake area that okay okay let's all hit hit kick off your shoes your socks stuff like that just jump in the lake get all the sand and grid off you at that at that point so I did things a little bit more unorth unorthodox but nobody else were doing stuff at that time I even ran a camp where I showed them how to throw people in water. It's easier to do a belly to back or a lateral drop and then just make a big splash because it's water. I mean, everyone wrestles in water. That's one point, especially if you're if other wrestlers. Come on, it happens. Let me ask you, if you if you were going to be a wrestler that wanted to transition to UFC, what's something you learned about striking that every wrestler should know? Well, I should have just I should have skilled that all together. Well, you're gonna have to pay the price for that later, but Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Um, I mean it's uh what one more time. Yeah. Yeah. For wrestlers who are going to get into UFC because I know you transitioned to striking. If you talk about mean, you know, if if wrestlers going to get into uh into it today, the mixed martial arts. Yeah. If they're going to go from just wrestling to full mixed martial arts because you had you had to go in and learn striking after wrestling. Yeah. Well, it it's can they do that? Sure. They they can. I mean, the the wrestling is a great foundation. and it gives you that work ethic and mindset. Um, so well, they're not going to go right to a UFC in the first place. So, they'll they'll they'll start off going into some little local yoke uh you know, regional type of a deal right there. know that the solops of progression, you know, even I look at the the UFC itself, they have that ultimate fighter show and even in the beginning, I think the two of the greatest fighters they brought out there, you had uh uh Forest Griffith versus Stephan Bonner, you know, the final match of that. I mean, they just it was a slobber of a fight and instead of giving out one contract, both guys got contracts to go and work for the UFC. So, it it was a kind of a cool big deal. Oh, that's cool. Who did you did you ever have any interactions with Dan Gable? Yeah. What kind of interactions did you have with the Iowa wrestle team? I mean, you know, Dan Gable, I mean, you know, was is a legend in the sport of amateur wrestling. He just did things that nobody else had ever done before at that time. you know, uh, different people now have eclipsed that. When you look at what Chaos Sun and a few of these other, uh, wrestlers because it just seems like every few years the whole sport gets upgraded a little more because, you know, they're starting them at younger ages and they're putting into tougher competitions at younger ages and just you got, you know, the cell phone is there. You got the world at your fingertips. all these encyclopedias that you can be looking up for techniques and and tactics and and eating tips and and on and on and on and and and I can also study you. I can pull up different film on you and so I got everything at my fingertips. It's much more than just the amateur wrestling magazines. Yes. Uh from the from the earlier days. Yes. Yeah, that's right. Oh, that's cool. Out of all your fighting, who hit the hardest? You know, I I I've been hit uh well, I mean Mark Colby hit me a couple times. I got hit by uh well again I'm getting hit by other people whereas like I'm trying to think what match I was in that where I got hit so hard that like I'm seeing three people and I'm like going go for the guy in the center the other two don't exist go for the guy in the center but it's like it's like that big but this has been this has been so yeah this is well I want to ask even like the MMA company danger zone I like zone danger zone because again it was it was no holes barred But I actually had rules for amateurs and pros as an amateur. I actually had a set of rules in progression. If it's your first match, you're in you're still in a cage cuz again I have a cage. That yellow truck out there's a cage in there. And uh I go for your if you're if you're within your first five matches, the only thing allowed to touch the pumpkin. I always refer to the head as the pumpkin. The only thing that could touch the pumpkin is the hand. Whether it be open, close, spinny back fists, don't care. Hammer strike. Only thing that touches the pumpkin is the hand. No kicks, no knees. Okay. Matches six through 10, I will allow a standing head kick. Because how many people can throw a standing head kick? Not many. No. So again, I'm sure I'm I've given you a chance to season yourselves because I gave a great great thought. First five matches only a hand to to the pumpkin up to 10 matches. Okay. Throw the throw the head kick knowing that very people. So it gives you you got 10 matches under your belt. Now 11 through 15. I now give you I now allow like an elbow strike to the head. The last thing I gave you is the knee because the knee biggest, heaviest weapon. It's like being hit with a sledgehammer. Deadly. So, well, you said that you're in the third quarter of life. Yes. What do you see for Dan Severn in the in the third and fourth quarter of life? Well, and I think we I don't know if we have caught that on the tape early, but you know, my own way I have this goal of going to is really what my goal is. So, again, I might be just ready for a good midlife crisis. That's all I'm ready for. You're shooting for 125. Yes, at 125. And this will maybe sound a little bit crazy, maybe comical, but then I think I'm going to have my life taken tragically and suddenly by a jealous husband. Now granted, now granted at 125, she'll be a much younger woman. That's right. Yeah. She might be in her 90s, but I I saw her putting on orthodontic stockings. I saw life. Yeah. But but again, it's all about it's it's kind of like comedy. It's how you perceive life. Too many people Well, most people don't realize what a kind of a warp sick twisted sense of humor I have, but I like it. I think it's great. I mean, you both are like the beast and are incredibly disciplined and a one-man show, and at the same time, you don't seem to take yourself too seriously. No. And that is a great balance. I don't know if there's there really if there ever truly a balance. I do I I have a tendency of talking to myself and I do answer myself. You know, I get into some quarrels at times. You know, I just read a study that said they tried to study what would bring down anxiety the most. And they were studying all of these different uh factors. And the one factor that showed the biggest decrease in anxiety for people is talking to yourself out loud. actually your voice just talking about whatever you're going through or whatever out loud actually has a a response in the brain that brings yourself down. Oh, trust me. Again, especially as I'm driving, I let people know you idiot over here. And this it's like the cell phone is I see I've witnessed more accidents because of the cell phone that people are it's like move. I see just like beep beep beep and they look what are you going oh dude he's not aware of your surroundings. Yeah. I think it's great that you're talking to yourself then. I mean helps keep keeps keeps the actually has this natural response in the brain. What about those other four voices I hear in my head? Right. Yeah. Right. They didn't study those ones. They we don't know the effect it has. All right. They didn't report in. Um so what does the day what is what does your day currently look like? You told us you have 3,000 emails right now. Well, yeah. Well, that's that's just a computer glitch that this two shall pass. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's like it'll take me a few weeks to get them all whittleled back down again, but I I'll get them whittleled down. But no, my my day is well get I I live kind of a split type life cuz I'm in Michigan for spring, summer, fall. Then I had to back up to Arizona now. But that that only came about because of CO. Oh, okay. It's new. You got to be think about okay because most people can't remember co this Americans so soon to forget it's got no you have to learn and you have to educate yourself so that when something happens again what did we learn from this last one what should be happening because co I mean co virus was such a special lies type of a virus because Americans we're putting down pieces tape five feet apart from each other. So if you're at a grocery store or something like that, you know, or any kind of a store, you had to stay five feet apart because these are not really good. The germs are not very athletic. They can't jump beyond five feet. So as long as you're five feet ahead, every now and then I had to pull myself out and take a picture because I was creeping over the five foot line. I went, I'm cheating today. I stepped across the line. Watch out. Okay. And then but then if you went to the restaurant, you had to wear a mask from the front door over to your table that you sat down to. And once you sit down at your table, That's right. It's a a COVID-F free zone. You can take off your mask now and eat, drink, party, carry on, even though there's a table right next to you and table right next to you. that going the co germ was like could only be at the entrance of of of of a restaurant but could not go all the way over to the table. That's right. It was not a very smart jerb. Um you said you're in the third quarter. Uh what would you what advice would you give to somebody who's kind of at the end of their first quarter, maybe beginning of their second quarter, and they're looking uh forward in life? what what sort of what sort of focus do you think they should have or or what would you tell them to focus on? But but again, it's what how do you want to live your life? Well, because you're if you're in the second half, okay, if if you're if you're in that that because you're looking at that middle because it's like are you married? Do you have kids? There's there's a lot of question a lot of other questions I would be asking. Are you married at this point in time? Do you have children? How old are the children? because there's there seems like some people out there we have more of a tendency wait a little bit later in life now to start having kids because they're trying to get their their life figured out a little bit more on work and saving up and things of that nature. So there's there's a lot of different factors. Even when I talked to like an MMA guy, he wants to train MMA and stuff like that. I'm like, "How old are you? Where do you work? Do you actually have a real job in the first place? Does this job have health benefits? because odds are you're going to get hurt somewhere along the line and you better have some health benefits. Are you saling any money away? I mean, I I I asked them so many different questions that I guarantee it's not on a normal interview in the first place, but it's like you got to be thinking ahead of time as I stated earlier, you know, in my training seat back into the kitchen area, stuff like that. the fact that of how I set up these tables with these bank of of four electrical outlets that are right there so that there there could be a desk lamp at each one so that not all the flood lights have got to be on that that's bothering other people. You can't be playing music and stuff like that because there's other people that that are you got to be conscious of of other people. It's not just all about you. But I go you have to know you have to plan ahead. I had my financial planners come in to I had my uh nutritionists come in there and speak to them because they hear enough from me. I I need them to hear it from a few other people. So if you hear from enough people is like going there must be something to this because I'm hearing it from so many other people. You can only be young for so long and then you're going to turn old. That's right. And you'd be surprised how quickly it comes up. Yeah. You blink. That's right. Yeah. Well, Dan, I really appreciate you letting us come in and chat with you. This is one of the coolest conversations I think we've ever had. So, and in one of the coolest venues we've ever gotten to do this in. So, you've done some amazing things and you I like I said, I remember being 10, 11, and 12 years old watching you on UFC and I can't believe I got to talk to you today. So, thanks for taking the time with us. Well, again, it's all part about the education. Just think of it as a dad. I actually, as I told people before, I actually have a teaching degree from Arizona State University, industrial arts. But I was like going, "But I those most of industrial arts teachers, they're missing an appendage, you know, right there." Watch out for that table saw. It'll get you every time. Yeah. But I still have all the appendages. So Dan, I also wanted to say thank you and I want to ask you, is is there anything that Michiganders might wonder about you that you've never revealed before? Just just for the locals? Well, I I'm not sure what uh I I again my Michigan board. Well, I'll say that uh my people that I went to school with always get mad that they always say that you're from Cold Water, Michigan. I go because that's what they ask me, where do I live? I go, at the time that I was entering these states, I live in Cold Water, Michigan. They because I had such a a great history of amateur saying from Montro, Michigan. It's like they think these you should always be saying Montro but when they go but if I sit tell the mailman that I live in Montro I'll never get any mail down here in cold water now will I that's right so I I have to tell them where where I live this is where I live that's awesome you I I cut my my start was it from Montros you know having a coach like a Tom Castill that as I stated you know physically he wasn't what you picture as a a great motivational coach But he was a phenomenal motivated type of coach. He made you want to run through a brick wall for him. He just had that kind of a personality to him. I have no doubt you've done the same for a lot of young men as well. Again, just last weekend running a little private class right over there. I had a father that was had his cell phone out videotaped because I go say, "Well, you could I" I go, "Here's here's a clipboard if you want to take any notes." He goes He goes, "Do you care if I just videotape?" I go, "Yeah, I guess that's just a more modern way of taking notes, so why not?" That's right. It's cool. All right. Well, thanks Dan. Really appreciate it. See you everybody.